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I've been advised by one of 'brilliant' ladies on Genes to request assistance from someone with a 'Find My Past' subscription ....

Ginette Shama was born on 22nd October 1917 at Alexandria, Egypt, she was the daughter of Ezra Shama (no details known apart from the fact he had died sometime prior to 1944) - not much help I know!!!!!!!!

Ginette married Frederick Charles Rounsley in October 1944 at Alexandria. Her nationality was shown as 'English' on the marriage certificate.

Does this mean one of her parents must have been English or maybe serving for English armed forces?

Any suggestions or help would be so much appreciated.

Kind regards

Sue

well Shama sounds as if it could well be Egyptian - mother likely to be British

British forces were in Egypt in 1917

Sinai and Palestine Campaign - Wikipedia, the free encyclope...
Map of north and central Sinai, 1917. The Ottoman Empire, at the urging of their German ally, chose to attack British and Egyptian forces in Egypt and shut ...

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinai_and_Palestine_Campai... - 99k - Similar pages

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinai_and_Palestine_Campaign
List of Battles of Egypt - Wikipedia, the free enc...
20 Jul 2009 ... Battle of Qadesh-circa 1274 BC- Pharaonic Egypt and the Hittites end in a draw, ... by the Kingdom of Jerusalem againest Fatimid forces in Egypt. ... Battle of fort of Rafa - 1917 - Between British army & Turkish army. ...

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Battles_of_... - 33k - Similar pages

[ More results from en.wikipedia.org ]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Battles_of_Egypt
The British campaign in Egypt and Palestine
British forces involved in Egypt and Palestine ... before in 1917 an offensive was launched which took British troops into the Holy Land and Syria. ...

www.1914-1918.net/palestine.htm - 24k - Similar pages

http://www.1914-1918.net/palestine.htm

Hi Ann,

Thanks for suggestions ...

Is there any way of finding out details of Ezra's birth and maybe even marriage information with such limited knowledge that I have ....

Someone gave a 'clue' that Ginette applied, in 1935, to the synagogue for financial help to continue her education, this may have indicated the family was Jewish!!!!!! It may also have been assumed her father, Ezra, had died by this time ..

Any help would be so much appreciated ...

Kind regards
Sue

Hi Ann,

One other snippet of information is that a witness to Ginette's marriage was Ida Shama (there is no indication what relative this lady was - may have been mother, sister or any other relation I suppose.

I have tried to find details of women, in England, named Ida who married prior to Ginette's birth and of any possible births assuming Ida was Ginette's mother but without success.

Sue

tried to find Ezra on the Mormon LDS site which does cover Egypt but no luck - hang in there and someone will come up with something for you - usually do!!!!

Ann X

Hi Ann,

Did Ginette's birth appear on the index and would it show parentage??

Is there a record anywhere of Ginette after her marriage in 1946, in either her maiden name of Shama or married name of Rounsley??

Sorry for all these questions but I've been trying for a couple of years to trace Ginette and/or her son (Reginald Isaac Rounsley born 16th December 1946 at Alexandria).

Kind regards and thanks ...
Sue

regret to say I am unable to find anything, but hang in there - someone will - they usually do!!!

Ann

Sorry to be a bit morbid but does the Mormon site 'list' deaths?

It just seems strange that nothing has been heard of Ginette Rounsley (nee Shama b.1917) or Reginald Isaac Rounsley (b. 1946) since the late 1940s.

Despite several years of intensive enquiries I have 'hit a blank wall' ........

Kind regards
Sue

Hi Sue - a quick google search certainly confirms how long and how widespread your search for this elusive pair has been so far!!

Going back to your initial question - was there something specific you were expecting to find from the "Find My Past" site?

A couple of things came up - but I'm reasonably confident from reading your earlier enquiries that you are aware of them - and of course they are not directly the pair you are looking for

From Consular birth indices - (so British citizens who have registered the births of children overseas) - other Shama children

1906 - 1910 - Celine
1911 - 1915 - Diane and Siaho A
1916 - 1920 - Edith, Marcel M and Robert

All were registered in Alexandria - and I can let you have page numbers if you want to order any of the birth certs

In the same volume of Army marriages that Ginetta and Frederick are in - it also shows Edith Shama marrying a John E Hibbert in Cairo in 1945 - again I can let you have more details if you want to order certs

In the Passenger lists departing UK there are a few Shama's - including - departing 2nd July 1931 in 2nd class on the P and O vessel RANCHI from London to Port Said, Marguerite (38) travelling with Ralph (17) Sophie (15), Clement (11), Rachel (9) and Robert (6) She had a hotel address in Fallowfield Manchester listed then and also appeared in a phone directory listing under Didsbury (Manchester) in 1925

Also bearing in mind Ginetta's son Reginald's second name there was a cotton trader/merchant Isaac Shama travelled to Peru in 1932 and New York in 1934 - both times with a Manchester address

I'm guessing you have probably followed up the Manchester connections and also have the other birth/marriage details but if you want more details of any of these or are after something else specific in FMP I'd be happy to look further

Good Luck
Sue

Just another quick thought (and not sure where you are) -but have you checked out any of the Foreign Office documents at the National Archives at Kew that relate to Egyptian based Shama's - a general search brings up a few that may have some background details - hope the link works - otherwise try "Search the Catalogue"

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/searchresults.asp?SearchInit=0&txtsearchterm=shama&txtfirstdate=&txtlastdate=&txtrestriction=FO&hdnsorttype=Reference&image1.x=0&image1.y=0&image1=GO

Cheers
Sue

Hi SueNSW,

Many thanks for the information you've supplied ..

As you've guessed I've made quite extensive enquiries and acquired a number of certificates, most of which have failed to add further details to my questions.

I have very limited knowledge apart from Ginette's marriage certificate (with the details thereon) and Reginald's birth certificate.

I also possess Ginette's last known address (1947) which was 41 Rue Aly El Leisse, Alexandria, together with photographs taken in 1947 of Ginette, Reggie and three other ladies, one of whom is her sister but the identities of the other two is uncertain (possibly an older sister and mother or maybe mother and grandmother).

I have contacted the 'owners of the trees', on the Genes site, who have entered family born in Alexandria and have even forwarded copies of the photos but without success. I have also sent messages to individuals, with Shama connections, on the ancestry.co.uk site but once again unsuccessfully.

Ginette's marriage certificate details witnesses as Ida Shama (presumed to be sister or mother) and Louis Steffanelli (message displayed on ancestry site but to no avail).

No one appears to have known or even remember Ginette and/or her father Ezra (a cotton classifier sho had died sometime prior to Ginette's marriage). How strange they seem to have not existed.

I have contacted GRO but they have no trace of Ginette's birth being registered so why did she describe her nationality as English?????

One of my lines of enquiry led me to believe that in 1935 Ginette applied to the synagogue in Alexandria for financial help to continue her education (this led to my belief that Ezra had died by then and she had no brothers who would have accepted responsibility for her (she was 18 at this time).

My very elderly aunt (last survivor who knew about Ginette's marriage to my father) remembers my grandmother receiving a letter from Ginette in about 1948, written in neat, articulate English, saying she could not leave her country (Egypt) because her mother was old and wanted to die in her own country!!!!!!!! Then nothing more was heard from either Ginette or Reginald .............

I wonder whether they had died but am unable to find any conclusive proof. Another possibiity is that they left Egypt when all the 'troubles' erupted!!

I have checked on all census returnsbut no Ezra Shama seems to meet the criteria I would expect. As you stated the majority of the Shamas in UK lived in the Lancashire area, particularly around Manchester.

I just seem to be 'hitting my head against a brick wall'.

Oh Sue any advice or suggestions would be so welcome and appreciated ...........

Kindest regards
Sue

No real flashes of brilliance I'm afraid Sue - you certainly seem to have covered most of the regular bases - I guess it is possible that they just lied about Ginette's nationality - in war time Egypt who knows what strings needed to be pulled and for what reasons

To move on - other than buying more certificates - if you are in Britain it might well be worth a trip to the NA at Kew to inspect those Foreign Office documents relating to the name Shama - it may of course be a complete waste of time but until you've looked at them it is hard to know

Other than that it probably depends on how far you want to take it - some general thoughts (again presuming you are in England) that might turn up some sources

British Library Newspaper Collection at Colindale
http://www.bl.uk/reshelp/findhelprestype/news/blnewscoll/#overseas

From the catalogue it looks as though they have a couple of English language papers published in Egypt during the period you are searching - the Egyptian Gazette and the Egyptian Mail. A look at them will give you an idea of the coverage they had and you should be able to decide if they are worth slogging through

The library of The School of African and Oriental Studies in London
http://www.soas.ac.uk/library/

As a world renowned centre - the library may have reference material that might help you with background. There are probably similar faculties at Oxford and Cambridge

Further afield - maybe try the library at Bibliotheca Alexandrina - in Alexandria
http://www.bibalex.org/libraries/presentation/static/10000.aspx

They have the "Ask a Librarian" feature - might be worth asking them what sort of reference material they have from the period you are looking at - or if they could suggest a professional researcher that might be able to help you

Maybe in the end a trip to Egypt (a la "Who Do You Think You Are?") might be the answer!!

Good Luck whatever you decide to do

Cheers
Sue

Hello,


Despite it being many years since my last correspondence concerning Ginette, and her son Reginald Isaac, I still have been unable to find any facts or information concerning their whereabouts.

Understandably Ginette would now have reached the age of 107 years (so in all probability would now no longer be 'with us') and her son would now be 78 years old but somewhere a record must exist with a thread I could follow to continue my search!!

Any advice would be so much appreciated.

Kindest regards
Sue

Can't see any reference to her husband in your posts - other than in connection with the marriage.

When/where was he born and what happened to him?

Your assumption that Ginette's 'father' died pre-1944 is based on his being 'deceased' when she married, I presume?

So.........he may have been invented.......something to consider unless you have onfo to suggest otherwise

How do you come to know Ginette's exact DoB?

Posting because I found it.....no idea whether there is any relevance

First name(s) Ida
Country Australia
Last name Shama
Barcode 9245057
Birth year -
Link to record https://recordsearch.naa.gov.au/SearchNRetrieve/Interface/ViewImage.aspx?B=9245057&S=1
Year 1949
Database title Australian National Passenger Lists 1898-1972
Arrival date 21 Feb 1949
Source Australia, Inward, Outward & Coastal Passenger Lists 1826-1972
Ship name Misr
Category Travel & migration
Departure port Port Said*************************
Subcategory Passenger Lists
Destination port Melbourne
Collections from Australasia, Australia
State Victoria

Age 38
Also a child Ruth Shama age 16

The thead needs to read in conjucntion with an old Rootschat thread:

https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=659584.0

Googling can pull up all sorts of info.

The thead needs to read in conjucntion with an old Rootschat thread:

https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=659584.0

Googling can pull up all sorts of info.

Added: Also this one:
https://www.familytreeforum.com/forum/research-advice/family-history-research/52644-french-records

Thank you……..

That puts an entirely different slant on this request, which is lacking in vital info. Witholding known info is NOT helpful.

Ginette’s husband must have left her and her son very soon after the boy’s birth

Did they divorce? He certainly didn’t remarry